'Blog post: Vilcabamba Real Estate Company (VREC) Properties Opens New Real Estat' Real Estate

Blog post: Vilcabamba Real Estate Company (VREC) Properties Opens New Real Estat

• Vilcabamba Real Estate Company (VREC) Properties Opens New R...

• VREC Properties

I think a better course of action would be to seek out a trusted local that will help you with the language so you can deal with Spanish speaking agents and owners directly.

Also to avoid shenanigans, I'd spend a LOT of time looking, a lot of time UNDERSTANDING the market. Talk to other expats and learn what shenanigans they've experienced so you can hope to avoid the same.

I have to say to anyone considering buying real-estate in Vilcabamba to BEWARE of the "operators" in that town. It is NOTORIOUS! The ONLY "safe haven" I know of (outside a couple of private developments) is VREC Properties. They are the ONLY LICENSED REALTOR in that town and take pride in the professionalism of their operation. Take their advice from the homepage "Important Notice to all Visitors to Vilcabamba".

Look at the testimonials they have received and talk to people in the square to find out about their excellent track record, as well as to discover the "reputations" of the others. Everyone from people in cafes to taxi drivers will try to sell you real-estate in Vilcabamba and their objective is to get you to pay as much as possible for the land because it means more back-end for them! If you dig, you will hear some interesting "rip-off stories" around town and the truth will quickly emerge. It should not take you too long to figure out who you should be dealing with.

Vilcabamba is a beautiful town, which has unfortunately attracted some immoral opportunists. Take this advice ... listen to what VREC have to say, and DO NOT fall victim to these sort of people.

• Vilcabamba Real Estate Company

Glenn, you say you're "from Vilcabamba"? Are you living there? For how long? You say to avoid problems people should buy direct from the owner, but then I'm sure you have to hire an attorney or a notary to do the hand-over of deeds/titles etc so why not just pay for the whole service? Doing business straight from the owner means you don't have the expertise of an agent who has done this many times before and knows if the house has been built or extended illegally, if there is anything you should know about the property...there are just so many opportunities to get suckered so I think its best to have a professional involved.

To clarify, I am not "spreading falsehoods" Glenn. It is you who appears to be doing so! Feel free to substantiate your position with some evidence rather than just getting defensive! I had a look for your real-estate license documentation on your website, but couldn't see any. If you have a real-estate license, why don't you post it on your website for everyone to see?

And while you're at it, please back up your other assertion by naming these "six licensed realty companies." I'm sure many other seekers out there would be happy to receive this information!

Which of the following staff of your company (as listed on your website) hold a current Ecuadorian real-estate license?

Glenn Sanderse - Presidente

Henry Spencer - Manager

Francisco Riofrío - Sales Associate

Karen Abdelrahman - Sales Associate

Ma. Nathaly Ponia Valdivieso - Attorney at Law

Dr. Dennis Loyola Carrion - Attorney at Law

And are any of these staff current members of the regional (and national) real-estate associations?

Readers should be aware that Vilcabamba is full of cowboys (and not just the ones doing Podocarpus horse-tours!). If a real-estate practice is unlicensed, the clients of that practice have NO PROTECTION under the law as written for the real-estate industry. So everyone reading this should remember this fact and take appropriate care.

People out there should also bear in mind the fact that companies (amazingly!) used to be able to "rent" someone else's "disused" real-estate license. Fortunately for buyers these days, this dubious practice has been exposed and can be prosecuted. The person whose name appears on the license MUST be an integral part of the real-estate company using that license (usually a partner, not just an employee or stooge). That's why I've asked the above question to Glenn.

So folks ... that's why I recommended following the 8 steps on VREC's homepage. I think it's GREAT they've posted this process on their website. At least this is a guideline for people to work out how professional their realtor is and not just "hope and believe" that the person is a "trusted family friend" as Joe suggested. In fact this "trusted friend" thing is typically what gets people in Vilca into trouble! Who's to say they, or the taxi-driver, isn't taking a huge cut on the side unbeknownst to anyone else? Better safe than sorry I say!

Looking forward to your response to this Glenn.

• www.vrec.org

It would be great to know the names of the regional and national real estate associations so I can ask someone if they are a member. Is it required that they be a member to be legitimate?

As an example, you can see that VREC have posted their current Real Estate License and Certificate on their website.

And as I said previously, if you deal with unlicensed operators in Ecuador generally, you deserve whatever befalls you.

The Regional Real Estate Association is called ASOCOBRAL (Associacion de Corredores de Bienes Raices de Loja), and the Federal Association is called FENACBRE (Federacion Nacional de Corredores de Bienes Raices del Ecuador).

If someone PROMINENT within a real-estate company is NOT holding a current real-estate license AND is NOT a paid-up member of these associations, then it's pretty easy to figure out whether you should be dealing with them.

All the important stuff is on the VREC homepage. Just follow the steps.

• www.vrec.org

It's been 5 days now, and not a word from you in defence of your assertions that there are 6 licensed realtors in Vilcabamba, when to my knowledge there is only one (VREC Properties).

Also you have singularly failed to prove to the readers of this blog and the world at large that ANYONE in your company is licensed in real estate in Ecuador. Needless to say then, these "staff" are also unlikely to be current members of the regional and national real-estate bodies!

Also, judging by the link I have attached here, your problems at Casa Bonita are significantly greater than simply running an unlicensed real estate operation!

If readers of this blog genuinely have an interest in being up to date on what's really going on in the Vilca real-estate scene, I suggest you click through to the link I have supplied with this post.

Enough said.

Thank you very much for your kind comment, it's nice to see that Rawinecuador's blog doesn't mind airing the whole truth, and by so doing they are providing a valuable community service much appreciated.

I encourage everyone to click on your link and check my full message non edited.

Sincerely Mrshall

Inmobiliaria Casa Bonita Casain Cia. Ltda. is a federally regulated real estate company governed by the laws of Ecuador. We do not engage in any illegal, immoral or unethical activities under any circumstances.

If we were operating illegally, a competitor would complain and the authorities would have shut us down. This has happened in the past. We are still open. Why is that? Simple. We are operating legally. We invite anyone to please visit us and have us show them the best pricing on the most beautiful real estate in the world, in a perfect climate.

Glenn Sanderse - glenn@casabonita.ec

I think where someone said there are two sides to a story has a point.

Being a disgruntled consumer and a business being a "con man" does not necessarily equate... look at the phone (especially cellular) and cable companies in the USA...

If stuff is stolen why aren't police reports made?

But maybe that discussion can continue in the forum post about it and maybe this one can continue with the original topic about a new real estate office in Vilcabamba.

I really don't know much simpler I can make this exercise.

1. Evidence of Casa Bonita's real-estate license - FAIL

2. Evidence of any CB staff's real estate association memeberships - FAIL

3. Evidence of 6 "licensed realty companies in Vilcabamba" - FAIL

You say Casa Bonita is a "federally regulated real estate company governed by the laws of Ecuador."

I say "this is misleading hogwash which to date has been backed up by ZERO in the form of substantive documentation." No license (federal or otherwise). No association memberships. No possibility therefore of being regulated by anybody. This is because Casa Bonita DOES NOT have a real-estate license and therefore IS NOT affilitated with any of the real-estate regulatory bodies.

It seems that whatever you say you are incapabale of backing it up with any evidence Glenn. I and everyone else here are still waiting for some evidence from you re your company's legitimacy as a realtor. Tick tock ...

The facts are that oftentimes the powers that be in Ecuador do not ENFORCE the licensing requirements in the real-estate industry which is most unfortunate for the unwitting public, and something that a company like yours can take advantage of for a while (well ... until the law catches up with your business partner anyway).

All I can add here re Casa Bonita is "Caveat Emptor." I suggest everyone contact the blogger on this page "Marshall from Northern California" directly to ascertain the truth of the matter here in respect of his experience with Casa Bonita.

In the meantime, re-read VREC's homepage for good advice as to how you should select a realtor in Vilcabamba.

• www.vrec.org

1. Business license. You do not understand Ecuadorean law. Any company must define their business in their incorporation papers. We are an Inmobiliaria. We can engage in any activity involving real estate. Construction, sales, contracting, etc. Pass.

2. Real estate association memberships. This is a concept that applies in common law countries. We have no interest or desire to pay any 'association'. We are federally regulated. Our tax ID# is on our website. That is the only number we need. Every person in our company has an ownership position. No 'real estate' license is necessary. If we screw up, we face jail time. Pass.

3. Evidence of 6 licensed real estate companies. This information is available at the company registry in Loja. 4 companies have retail offices, 2 do not. We, and VREC are 2 of the 4. Pass.

The rest of your post is an illogical, misinformed rant. Ecuador is a developed country with laws and regulations that are very different than you are used to (I'm assuming you are from a common law country like the USA). Having a company in Ecuador is a highly involved, regulated process. We have incurred all necessary license and permissions to operate legally in this country. Companies who have not done this have been shut down. This is not the 'wild west.' It is a country of laws and we conform to them all. For example, to get permission to open a bank account so we can accept deposits in our client's name involves paperwork that would choke a horse. If we do not maintain our books correctly, we face jail time. The same if we misappropriate funds.

Nice try VREC shill... Have the courage to come see me, phone me, or email me. To anyone reading this, contact me directly if you need more information on Ecuadorean law and real estate licensing, property transfers or any other information. Vilcabamba Marshall's story is sad, funny, and frightening all at the same time. It doesn't pass the smell test. Since every webmaster immediately removes his rants when notified, it's too bad we can't respond. We were up 'til 1 a.m. writing our draft response. We'll finish it if we see his delusional rants posted elsewhere. I have attempted to contact him. I have heard nothing.

Vilcabamba is a wonderful place. Ecuador is a capitalist country. No company has a monopoly on licensing, ethics or morality or legal operation. We invite anyone to contact us and make their own decisions regarding us. We also invite everyone to visit our competitors and compare. Since Casa Bonita is run by locals, we have real pricing. This is a serious threat to someone apparently, or something... Who knows, I'm a busy guy. I'll check tomorrow to see if we're being defamed here again. As I state frequently, please contact me in any of the ways posted on our website.

Consequently I became something of an expert. Add to this the knowledge that comes through to me anecdotally through my friends every time someone gets cheated or "played" in Vilcabamba, and the modus operandi of these "players" becomes more and more clear.

My information and knowledge therefore stand very well on their own. You are welcome to get upset, and you will get upset, because I am plainly and simply exposing the truth of the situation by asking you to answer the only questions that matter. And these are questions you are still UNABLE to satisfy with valid answers.

Quite simply Glenn (and whether knowingly or unknowingly), you are being played by an operator, in a similar sort of way to the way it appears Marshall was played by the same guy. It remains to be seen whether you can disassociate yourself from him in time to not also be taken "downtown" when the impending legal proceedings come down in their full force ... which according to Marshall they will.

For your own ongoing education and for the benefit of the folks at home, let's review your answers shall we?

1. Re "Does Casa Bonita have a Real-Estate License" - The incorporation document you mention Glenn is only a PART of the documentation you require in order to be legal as a real-estate agent in Ecuador. This document is simply the creating of a company which you need to do for tax purposes! You could write "exploratory rocket launches to Mars" or something similar (whatever you like) in that document, but it doesn't mean you wouldn't be arrested for trying to send rockets into space from Vilcabamba's town square! The document you need, as I've reiterated several times now, is a REAL-ESTATE LICENSE (and this fact is hardly rocket science Glenn!). Every professional in Ecuador is required to display their credential publicly, whether they are a doctor, dentist, lawyer, realtor or whatever. The creating of a "company" is merely INCIDENTAL to being able to operate LEGALLY as a real-estate agent. If (for example) you walk into VREC's office you can see their license framed on the wall. You can also see it posted on their website, along with the official certificate which precedes the actual license. Why would VREC bother with it, if they didn't need it or it wasn't important and worth something? The fact is, you have no such credential. End of discussion! Nice try, but the FAIL stands I'm afraid.

2. Re "Memberships of Relevant Associations" - The Federal and Regional Real-Estate Associations are formal associations of LICENSED peers! They do not exist arbitrarily or "for fun" as you seem to suggest. Membership is a PRIVILEGE for those who are suitably accredited at what they do! It is the equivalent I guess of using Registered Plumbers or Electricians, or ensuring you use a Master Builder to build your home! One would clearly rather deal with an industry-accredited peer who is subject to the association's arbitration and review, than deal with someone who is NOT LICENSED and subject to NO peer review or accreditation. Especially in a country like Ecuador! Simple as that. Again a nice try, but the FAIL stands.

3. Re "6 licensed realtors in Vilcabamba" - I hardly think it necessary to point out that as you have now stated you have no real-estate license, that this answer needs much further explanation. The FAIL firmly stands. VREC therefore (as previously stated) is still the only DEMONSTRABLY licensed realtor in Vilcabamba. If anyone knows of another one, please let us know!

In closing Glenn, it does not matter how much you wriggle like a worm on the hook, the fact is that I am telling the plain unvarnished truth, and you do not like it being made public is all. I understand that, but it’s not my duty to sympathise with you for these shortcomings ... it's my duty to inform you and others of the reality, and the importance of that reality under Ecuadorian law.

I hope the above gives you pause for thought, and that you re-think your approach in Vilcabamba ... otherwise it would appear disaster is imminent.

• Vilcabamba Real Estate Company

My real name and office and contact info. are in this thread, on our website and everywhere else.

I suspect if Nick, Santiago and Marcos saw this thread, they would be horrified.

The implied threat is pretty pathetic. What exactly have I not answered? If anyone else (since Pacha will only respond here and will not contact me directly) has any questions I will be happy to respond.

We operate legally, ethically and morally with the best prices. We invite everyone to visit or email us.

Regards,

Glenn

"The implied threat is pretty pathetic. What exactly have I not answered?"

There is no threat from me Glenn! I'm just making an observation re likely outcomes for your company, based on what I've read and heard so far.

It is your own business partner who is the threat to you, your reputation, your credibility, your "business" (such as it is). In Vilcabamba (or any small town really I guess) relationships and reputations are EVERYTHING. And yours never even had a chance to flourish under the shadow of the disastrous actions of your business partner.

Consequently, your reputation is also being trashed by virtue of the unfortunate company you've chosen to keep.

And as to the second (question) part of your comment ... the answer is "you have FAILED in all your answers to all the questions I have posed." If this blog was available in Braille, Blind Freddy could tell you that much!

Anyone reading this blog with a rational mind and a cool head, and who is evaluating carefully what has been asked and what has been answered(or NOT answered), now knows for sure your real-estate office has NO credentials whatsoever, and furthermore stands accused of fraud. Great combination!

Again, enough said.

Can everyone provide positive 3 suggestions on how to purchase or rent real estate in Ecuador? ie: how would you avoid the various problems that might arise in the purchase of property?

2. Be aware that VREC are the only demonstrably LICENSED realtor in Vilcabamba. They display these credentials publicly both in their office and on their website, and as required, you can meet the license-holder Santiago Rodriguez, who is a principal of the company.

3. Use VREC's "no-obligation no-cost property assessment" to ensure you have ANY PROPERTY of interest valued. It's a FREE SERVICE of great benefit, which never existed before they arrived on the scene a couple of years ago!

4. Be aware that just by existing and working ETHICALLY, VREC have upset the shady operators of Vilcabamba, solely because they have made it so much more difficult for such operators to significantly rip off people new to Vilcabamba.

5. Check testimonials from previous clients both in print and in person if possible. If the person who you're dealing with is unable to produce happy clients and thereby demonstrate a consistently good track record, why would you risk entrusting such an important process and life-decision to them?

• Vilcabamba Real Estate Company

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